An interview with Tendai Manzvanzvike from Sunday Mail - Zim papers
Divine Appointments
The Lord
Are they a
replica of the celebrated gospel artistes couple Pastor Charles Charamba
and wife Mai Olivia Charamba? Musician Charles Chipanga, in
2010 also married another musician Namatayi Mubariki, who is
currently a vocal trainer at the Zimbabwe College of Music.
Charles released his album "Goodness" on September 1,
which will be launched at the end of the month. Tendai Manzvanzvike (TM)
speaks to him (CC) about the new album, his marriage and Christian walk.
TM: Welcome
to Divine Appointments. How is Namatayi? And, what makes your
relationship tick?
CC: Thank
you! Namatai is great and doing very well. We're just covered
in grace. There are too many similarities between us. Both our
fathers are late, and we were raised by our mothers who
love the Lord and are choristers in the respective churches they attend.
My mother, who lives in Kadoma and has been a preacher in the Zimbabwe
Methodist Church for a very long time cultivated the Christian faith in
me.
TM: Do you
have a family yet?
CC: No, but
definitely next year.
TM: Is it
that so well planned?
CC: Yeah!
That is always what we wanted - to enjoy ourselves while it was just
the two of us. And now that we have, we can take in a third person on board.
TM:
And, congratulations for your “Goodness” album and the goodness that God has
given you. It’s very different from the other gospel stuff I have listened to.
This is album number what?
CC: This is
album number three under Chalenam stable, but by Charles it is the second
one. My first solo album is “Prayer expose - Namatayi” And the second one
is by Namatayi – “Grace moments”. And this one is “Goodness” again by
Charles.
TM:
When you say “Prayer expose - Namatai” and you are married to someone called
Namatai, was this coincidence or you wanted to sing about her?
CC: Our
marriage was never a coincidence, starting from the way we met, when
she was singing in the Presbyterian Church where I had just visited.
Then, there I was, I see this very beautiful girl.
I couldn’t
even hear what the pastor was saying. I just wanted the service to end so that
I could talk to the sister. That day, hey, God forgive me, I didn’t even hear
anything. I just heard her good voice and when the service ended, I spoke to
her.
TM: So, was
it love at first sight for both of you?
CC:
It wasn’t an easy road. But for some reason, two years later,
I joined Oliver Mtukudzi’s band and she was also part of Tuku’s band.
We grew
closer and got to know each other better and then we got married in
2010. Even the Chalenam label was not just a joining of names.
Charles means
a principled person. Namatai means prayerful. So, our band is a principled
and prayerful band. That’s why we call it Chalenam. I really believe that
everything was divinely ordained.
My first
project was to write about an expose on prayer, dealing with issues that had to
do with prayer; how God answers prayer; how we should pray. For example – we
don’t pray through the name of Jesus, but we pray in the name of Jesus.
So, we were
just educating people on how to pray; how to wait for results.
TM:
Which church were you going to when you met?
CC: I was
still going to AFM Shiloh Word Miracle Centre in Mabelreign pastored by
Reverend O. Sasa.
But when we
got married, we looked for a new and independent church. She was a key
person in her church and I was a key person in my church, so, to balance the
two, we just had to say: you leave yours and I leave mine and we look for an
independent church.
TM:
How did you look for it?
CC: Meeting
the pastor that I have now was through dreams. I saw the man in a dream. I
didn’t know him but I just saw him talking to me.
Then one day,
my mother got sick and I was just sharing with another guy about her problem,
and he told me that there was a man of God who could pray for her and she would
be delivered from the hypertension.
The moment I
saw him, I knew that he was the man I was supposed to meet, and then
everything just happened. That’s how I got to go to be at Tabernacle of Grace
Church, led by Apostle Batsirai Java.
TM: He
is also a very principled man of God!
CC: Indeed,
he is very principled and we have been there for five years now.
TM:
And Namatai is comfortable?
CC: Yes,
very, very comfortable. We are both praise and worship leaders; and deacons in
the church as well.
TM:
Is that divine favour?
CC: I think
so. We have settled in very well.
TM:
Let’s go back to Namatai. She was with Oliver Mtukudzi and then you joined her.
These are two very different music genres. You are into gospel music. I don’t
know whether you call it that or maybe praise and worship or worship music. And
Tuku, here and there can spice up with some hymnals. How did it work out in
terms of your balancing? Did you feel that you were compromising your
principles singing Tuku’s music?
CC: I can say
that much of the stuff that Oliver sings has to do with the social aspects of
life – how people should live together peacefully. I believe it is gospel
because gospel is good news.
But, I sing
Christian music; my music is Christ-centred. Christ is the source of my
inspiration; He is the one I am talking about every other time.
So, it didn’t
sound awkward to be part and parcel of Tuku’s band. It was a learning
experience. I believe we all have to go through that. I cannot demonise his
music really. I find nothing very awkward about it and the other good thing
about Tuku is that he doesn’t play in a bar. We played in theatres, in big
halls. So you just go and you do your job. It’s like you are a quality
controller at Madison and then a deacon in church.
TM: Or at
Castle Breweries or Afdis?
CC: There is
nothing you can do. You just have to work, but it helped me grow in the music
aspect. It helped me understand and have experience over the years. It also
helped me to shape the music that I am singing. The experience that I got with
Tuku was immeasurable. It was a great thing that I got or, I can say that it
was a plus on my side.
TM: Apart
from music what else do you do?
CC: We are
entrepreneurs doing events management. We have an events company and we
also have a few taxis roaming around town.
TM: Let’s now
turn to your latest release “Goodness”, with the sleeve where Charles is
carrying a Jembe drum. What are you saying about that “goodness”.
CC: I
am saying goodness is an attribute of our maker, the exact character of God
that He gives unto us.
Goodness is
both ways. If you read Galatians 5:22, it’s a fruit of the Spirit that you
should have, and it’s also the character of our God. This is what the album is
talking about.
You can tell
because the very first song is called “Ruregerero” where we are talking about
forgiveness. I am looking at Christ being dragged to the Cross; He is being
beaten; people are calling Him names; they are spitting on Him and an hour or
two later, He is on the cross, but He says, “Father, forgive them, for they
know not what they are doing.”
So, I’m
looking at that and I am saying, Lord, teach me how I can also do this because
in life I have had to fend for people, but the same instruments that I use to
fend for them, are the ones they take and kill me with. So Lord, teach me
how you do it because I don’t know how to forgive.
I want that
Godly attribute, that fruit of the Spirit to be within me. How can you hear my
prayers when I haven’t forgiven anybody? So, this is all that I was trying to
say right through the album, we talk of the goodness of the Lord, and secondly,
the goodness that we should possess as a Christian. So, “Goodness”!
TM: But out
of the 10 tracks I don’t see a song with that title Goodness. Why is
that?
CC: I give
equal attention to all my songs and messages. I have never had a title track
ever! I don’t understand how to do it because I give equal attention to all.
And, I don’t release an album until I have a message. I haven’t released since
2013, and me as Charles Chipanga, I last released in 2011, and God gave me a
message that we are in the grace moments. That’s when I released Namatayi’s
album and I wrote that.
Equally so, I
had to get a message about God’s goodness and write about it. That’s the whole
package that God wanted me to give to His people.
People are in
a state of confusion right now. They don’t which prophet is right and who is
wrong; they don’t know which church is right and which is wrong. They don’t
know whether there should be miracles or not, or whether these miracles are
right or wrong. People are in a state of confusion.
But God is
now saying, don’t focus on all that. Focus on the goodness. For the rains to
come on your field today, it wasn’t because you are good. No! It was because
God is saying He is good, my grace is sufficient, so appreciate that. Don’t
look for a miracle. Aah they are good, but miracles are for babies, and they
are for now.
TM: Miracles
are for babies?
CC: Yes, it’s
baby stuff. When you’re grown up, you eat bones. You don’t eat manna every day.
No, no, no! We are not in the wilderness. We are now know our God and that He
provides. So, when the sun rises, see the goodness of God. When you go to sleep
and wake up, you just have to see the goodness of God. That’s the message He is
bringing to His people right now.
There is a
song, “Mira hako” (just be patient). Just because your neighbour started a
church and has got 10 000 people and you started 20 years ago, and you have got
300 people, doesn’t mean that God doesn’t recognise you. He is not going to
reward people in terms of how many people were following them. After all, when
you are a pastor and you have more than 10 000 people, you can’t shepherd more
than 100 people. You have to be a true shepherd.
TM: He might
not even have witnessed to all those people.
CC: Yes.
Somebody would have done the work. So, focus on the goodness of God. This is
the message that God has. That’s why I had to write this message.
TM: Why
should Charles sing about “Goodness” in an environment where some people have
lost hope, an environment where whatever they were holding on to seems like it
is slipping away from them, and they actually don’t know their next move? How
could Charles come up with this message of goodness?
CC: I think
it’s divine. It’s the same God who says, “All things work together for good to
them that love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.” There is a
reason for everything. God is taking us through things so that we can have a
testimony.
Look, when
you start realizing that your salary is not what keeps you, that’s when you
know the goodness of God.
The minute
you just understand that, salary doesn’t mean anything. Yes, it’s allowed to
have it, but I look at many people that earn below $400, and for you to survive
on that amount, it’s a miracle.
So, we are
beyond salary and we are seeing the goodness of the Lord. This is the goodness
of the Lord that is breathing right into our faces.
Many of us
are really thinking that jobs and salaries, are the once that keep us alive,
but God is taking us somewhere.
I want to see
who will die because they don’t have a job or salary. This is when we see the
gracious move of God because Zimbabwe is also going through a spiritual
shift.
That’s why
there is a mushrooming of prophets, pastors etc. There is a shift. There is a
revival that is going on, and the shift has to touch everyone. It has to touch
your job, your house where you have to pay for pre-paid water, etc. Yeah, it
has to come there. God is so wonderful if you just understand. I like the way
God operates. He is so organized. He just wants us to understand that He is
God.
TM: You sound
like my nephew who said that the moment you claim that you are a permanent
employee, then you are no longer productive.
CC: Exactly!
At times we forget. I think that these are the days of manna that we are
living. You know, just to wake up and say, “God, I need food on my table,” then
you forget and move on. He is a gracious God. He will provide for you.
He is not
like man who will ignore you when you are speaking to them (Numbers 23). Even
if you sinned against Him the day before, He will still respond because in
Isaiah, He says, “Come, let’s reason together.” That’s all He has been saying.
Then you see the goodness of God.
I am not
talking fake things here. I think that there are many people who can tell you
that they last survived on a salary years ago. They also last survived through
a formal job years ago. They don’t know how it happens, and they stop thinking
about tomorrow.
Jeremiah
29:11 says, “For I know the plans I have for you…” And when God says He knows,
you can’t doubt Him because He knows. God doesn’t lie. He knows. So why
worry?
TM: In fact
He says, “Do not worry about tomorrow, because it takes care of itself.”
CC: So, I
choose to focus on the goodness of the Lord. I’m like Job. Everything has been
taken away from me, but I continue saying, “You are Lord” because He doesn’t
change. He remains God. God also shows this goodness using Job when He
doubles the blessings after the initial losses.
TM: There is
only one track with an English title, “Favour and grace.” Why one only because
your age group normally likes to sing in English? Even the lyrics and
instruments are not what I see your age mates play. It’s more like Tuku and
others.
CC: If you
check my music, I don’t think that it’s the music of my age. I grew up being
friends to older people. I never had a friend of my age.
Maybe
it was by design, but up to now, I still feel the re… of instruments and a
proper message is key to a song. I can’t sing about “my wife.” Yes, she is
beautiful and I love her, but I can’t compose a song about her.
God is
looking for the person who worships Him in Spirit and in truth. So, I have to
fill in that void. That’s why I sit down and ask God for the message that I
should release to His people.
It starts
with composition. One thing I’ll tell you about “Favour and grace” is that I
never sat down to write it.
I got into
the studio, then I said to the keyboardist, can you play (demonstrates), and I
started to sing. I cried at the end. They erased the whole thing but it is
still a new song to me. I know it came from God, but I still don’t understand
it.
And, I have
been asking myself how much I contributed for the sun to rise today? How much
did Paul contribute from being called Saul to be Paul the greatest Apostle?
What did he do?
Thus when I
see the meaning of favour; the meaning of grace. How much would it cost to
obtain mercy?
If a price
tag was to be put on mercy, how much would it be? I started looking at things
from a different level and said we have the favour and grace of God. So, that’s
the only song that I couldn’t write. By the way, I think I’m not good in
English, but my wife is but I think I do best singing in
Shona.
TM: And, how
long does it take you to write/compose these songs?
CC: I really
cannot tell how long because what happens is the song gets deposited in my
spirit. I start working on it. I work, work, work! Two words can just
come. I have a recorder in my phone, so when I hear something in my spirit, I
just turn on the recorder.
Three weeks
ago, I was just about to take a bath and I started singing: “Oh nhai Baba,
naisaiwo mvura kani; naisai mvura iyo; kuti tipunduke!” So, I record that and I
have one line. Then from there, I start developing.
If I lose my
phone, I cry more about what’s inside the phone than the contacts because it’s
my bank of songs.
But it can
take a year because when I write my songs: I write for a person who doubts that
there is Christ; I’m writing to a person who knows or has heard about Christ
but doesn’t have a personal encounter; I’m writing to a person who has been
walking with Christ for 100 years; and, I’m writing to a person who doesn’t
believe that there is Christ.
So, I have
got four people in my mind. My message has to fit all these target groups.
Those four minutes in the song have to minister to all these four people at
different stages with Christ.
TM: So are
you soon to release this song because these four categories need water/rain/the
Holy Spirit?
CC: Yeah.
There is this one who has been walking with Christ who knows that water comes
from God. Then there is this one who didn’t know Christ, whom we are telling
that it is Christ who does it and this one who doesn’t believe “achapunduka
aziva kuti anoziva Mwari akumbira kuna Baba.”
All the four
should come into contact and really understand the message. So, it has to fit
everyone. Thus I cannot give you a time span in terms of how long it takes me
to finish the composition.
TM: Do you do
live shows?
CC: Yes. We
have been doing mainly corporates. I think that God has called us in that line.
We have done more corporates than public shows. But we usually do our own shows
at the Zimbabwe-German Society, weddings and church conferences, but it’s
mainly companies that hire us.
TM: The whole
band?
CC: Yes!
TM: on this
album, you also did a duet with Pastor Charles Charamba? Tell us about that.
CC: Indeed –
“NdezvaMwari”! That one is a great song. I wrote that song when I was in Grade
7 in 1997, and it was one of my first compositions. I then recorded it under
Albert Nyathi and I appreciate him for that. He helped me record, but the song
didn’t do well that time. I did a video of the song in 1999. It was played
until the tape could no longer be found at ZBC.
Then one day
I was home and thought to myself that the message should go somewhere. It
didn’t get to where it should have. Then I called Baba Charamba, and I asked
him whether he had a contribution he could make since I wanted to redo it. I
still felt the message could help people out there. He told me that he was
thinking the same, so why not, let’s do it.
I kept
wondering whether it was really him saying that.
TM: You were
surprised?
CC: I was
because it wasn’t a struggle, since Baba Charamba is very principled. I
consider myself blest and I feel that there has been strange favour upon my
life.
I also did
the first duet with Suluman when he released “Talk to somebody” in 2011. And
recently, Benjamin Dube came to my church and he said, “I think I want to sing
with you.” He called me when we were having the 10th Anniversary Conference.
It was live
on Star FM. We sang “Makanaka Jesu.” I think that it’s just divine favour that
works in my life. I don’t know what they see in me, all these people but I
think that they see the grace of God. So, I can testify of His goodness.
TM: You said
Christian music but in terms of instruments, it’s a fusion and the mixture
makes it very rich. Many people from different parts of the country or even
Africa can identify with the instrumentation. Why this fusion?
CC: Tuku
helped me to take pride in African instruments. I’m one person who believes in
our local stuff.
TM: The buy
Zimbabwe guy, so to speak?
CC: I love my
mbira, my hosho, my marimba, my ngoma. In fact, my wife plays ngoma so well. I
play marimba. We like the African feel of it so that we bring it home.
I want to
capture my grandmother. She should find something in my music that she relates
to. I also want to capture somebody in Sweden for example. They should
find that saxophone that relates to them. I also want to capture somebody in
Jamaica. They should find some chops inside there. So, it’s a fusion of cultures
and music elements that are reaching every culture.
Why, because
I studied ethnomusicology at Zimbabwe College of Music and I went on to do a
Masters degree at the music college. Ethnomusicology is basically the study of
cultures and their music. Everything has a reason and so, you try and
incorporate all that to produce one fat kind of music. That’s the
instrumentation and how I do it. I don’t know how I do it, but it just comes.
TM: How
acceptable is your music, especially among the younger generation and in this
age of dancehall music?
CC: There is
always the grown-up side of everyone. So, even those who love to sing
dancehall, they have got a few pieces that they like from this. Although I can
say that my music is for the mature ear, for we have a following of many
couples and elderly people, but young people have also taken this music up.
I relate to
them in terms of age and maybe in dressing, but when I am there doing
something, we are totally different especially, so there is a relationship
somewhere. There is a mature side to a Zimdancehall person, that’s the one I
take advantage of.
TM: Among the
music giants, who is your most favourite?
CC: There is
a guy called Lokua Kansa from Senegal; Richard Bonner – I listen to him a lot.
There are many aspects I take from these artists. It could be dressing, stage
presentation, music arrangement.
TM: Another
fusion again?
CC: I also
like Charles Charamba’s writing style. He writes songs. It’s one aspect I love
about him. I like Victor Kunonga’s music arrangement, and with Tuku, I like his
lyrics. They are powerful, very poetic. I like the way he writes. So, it’s a
mixture.
And, Benjamin
Dube, I like the way he connects with God when he is singing. With or without
an audience, him and God are enough. I like that aspect. God is his audience,
and with or without an audience, he is still a worshipper. And then connect all
this with the word of God.
TM: There is
debate on what is gospel music and you clearly stated that you sing Christian
music. What’s the difference and it’s like whatever comes, as long as there is
money in it, they shift to that genre? How do you respond to that? What is
labeled gospel music, is it really gospel music? You are not judging anybody
here.
CC: It’s got
to do with inspiration. That’s why I said my music is Christ-centred. When it
diverts to this name thing, to me, it becomes something else.
To sing about
love is good news, for God is love. So, they also sing gospel.
That’s why I prefer to sing Christian music. If I
don’t sing Christ, I don’t know whom I am singing. I cannot divert from Him. My
message has to be Christ-centred. Those who are getting in it for money, they
will be very disappointed.
Good news doesn’t have money. For it to go, you
need the money. Good news is for free but you need the money for it to go up
there. So, it’s expensive to sing good news. Ask those who did the Good News
Bible. They will tell you that it’s not easy to do good news.
It’s not easy to do gospel, but if you do
Christ-centred music it has to do with your relationship. Yes, they are getting
in for different reasons, but God always separates the wheat from the chaff.
The other thing is that I don’t sing commercial music.
I sing collectors’ stuff. I don’t produce hits. If
you feel something, connect with God or speak with Him, take it and play. I
produce batteries that recharge you every other time. That’s why piracy has
never affected me.
TM: Final
remarks!
CC: Jesus is
coming soon, and don’t be weary in what you are doing. Don’t get tired. Keep
focused on His goodness, you will certainly have something to praise
about.
Don’t hang
around complainers; don’t hang around people with negative ideas. Look for the
goodness of God because He coming soon, and His goodness is right there where
there is a storm.
There is
always something good in that storm: either the fish that will come out of that
storm and you will eat or the crocodile that will just leap over and eat you
up. That is what a storm does: it leaves you with the good and the bad.
Focus on the
good, and just know that Jesus is coming soon. Get prepared. If you can win a
soul, do so, everyday. Check yourself after a week whether you have won a soul;
have I witnessed about Christ; what’s my purpose in life; why did I come on
earth?
If you spend
two weeks without winning a soul, your heart should pounce. Don’t get
comfortable with things of this world, for they will come to pass.
Let’s live in
the fourth dimension of things. First dimension is demons that are under our
feet; second dimension is principalities; third dimension is carnal things.
Let’s get out of the third dimension where you see God through a car, cash, big
house. No! Get out of that.
And, the
fourth dimension is seeing God with a spiritual eye, seeing what He is doing
daily. Just visit a hospital and see what He is doing. Walk around and
see how other people are struggling to swallow, then you see His
goodness!
PIC: COURTESY OF CHARLES CHIPANGA
Charles Chipanga
